The use of music makes me think they're trying to create a video game -like atmosphere. I mean, it makes sense, this is a generation of young soldiers raised playing video games. So chilling.

Blurring fantasy and reality in the midst of music desensitizes the combatant. It's not just music. Ever observed Horatio's corny remarks at a murder scene in the 'CSI Miami' series? To make this unreal situation more real, our hero takes on a moral crusade against the killer. Sardonic retorts over a dead person are accepted; Four-lettered words of anger against the perpetrator are not (on TV). Shows like these are shaping our "reality" and personalities. Maybe that's why Jerry Bruckheimer was supposedly sought out to sell the current Iraq war to the public. How many are moved by a killing these days? We are losing our innocence. "Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless he becomes like a child."

Sadly, this message is lost among so-called adherents.

The soldiers will make themselves numb to such a reality someway and this method is a tested and time-honored tradition dating back to at least the Scottish bagpipes. When a person has a just such a job to do, the reality must not be carried back to society. What do you see as the consequences of releasing hardened killers back into our society? Vs. people who can act out aggression, and then retain their moral senses?

A group of us went tonight, including Emily, who was one of my compadres in Rowan's Social Problems class. We were galvanized and energized and haunted by the movie. We booed a fancy girl getting our of her parents' car on her way into Southpark wine & beer bar where we had gathered to decompress. She had a Bush-Cheney sticker on her borrowed car, and we were primed to challenge her. She quickly ran for shelter into the bar.

The movie was amazing, and it's interesting about the music that certain troops used to pump them up for the invasion. I'd give the title of the song, but it's pretty harsh. Let's just say that it encourages the mother to burn. I've always hesitated to link music with crime (crime is what I consider what has been occurring in Iraq), yet the aggressive link cannot be denied. No one has listemed to the Beatles "Helter Skelter" with the same level of comfort that existed before the Manson murders, and by the same token, I can't ignore the impact of hard-driving, aggressive and surreal music to mesmerize troops toward a sobering goal.

There are many ways to engage a mind, and there is not doubt that music can be used to create a certain mood. Does anyone remember how the CIA used heavy metal to try to drive Manuel Noriega (another American-sponsored turncoat) into submission? In the absense of Prozac or Zoloft in a very stressful situation, music can access a hard-driving mindset, as we could sense from the soldiers interviewed.

At any rate, Rowan, I think you bring up a very valid point. In Fahrenheit 9/11, we see the various means by which the government procures its pawns.

SEE THIS MOVIE, if you haven't already!

random replies:
re: Emily - "...this is a generation of young soliders raised playing video games.so chilling." Is one to surmise that only those who entered today's military played video games growing up? I would think that most professions are filled with people who grew up playing video games and not just the military.

re: Jack - who alludes to post combat participants and their ability to adjust. "...the consequences of releasing hardened killers back into society vs people who can act out their aggression and retain their moral senses". In looking at the world of professional athletes, it appears not all can act out their aggression and retain their moral senses, in light of the many court cases involving said athletes. One could querry if the adjustment of combat soliders is any different from the conduct of professional athletes once off the court/field/arena.

re:Pamlea - who comments that after viewing the movie, the group she was with encountered a "fancy girl" and booed her. The question could be asked if this is the consequence of the viewing the movie or a mere statement of perceived social status and implied political affiliation. And, one could ask if this "fancy girl's" ethnic heritage had any impact on being booed, or conversely if of another heritage than the group that booed her, would it have occured at all? In as much as the "fancy girl" ran into a bar for shelter, the reader can assume she felt something more than being challenged was at hand. Lastly, the reader may well wonder what type of music this group has been listening to that prompted them to boo a stranger and essentially chase her into a bar for sanctuary. I hope it wasn't Chopin.
Lastly, she comments that "in the absence of prozac or zoloft in a very stressful situation, music can access a hard-driving mindset. thank god the police and EMS, firefighters and ER staff and investigative social workers and crisis center staff are not allowed to listen to certain kinds of music, or perhaps they are mandated to take drugs in order to perform their stressful duties. Fodder for a dissertation?

My huge reply to Goesh just went into that preview black hole I get here at times. Probably a good thing!

I'm going to shorten my reply to a few key points. I’m replying only to clarify the point you raised about the girl whose Bush/Cheney bumper sticker we booed. The "fancy girl" I spoke of was heading into the same pub that we were in, and the boos she received were in response to her Bush/Cheney campaign sticker, she was fully aware of this, and it was all of 2-3 boos. As she passed us, she was smiling. None of the people in our group operate by intimidation. I clarify this only for the other regular bloggers here who may possibly have misunderstood like I’m assuming Goesh did.

I don’t view booing as an action equivalent to soldiers listening to "burn the mother------ down" prior to heading into war. Michael Moore has stood up to plenty of boos from right-wing contingents, as have I on various occasions of protest. Should Moore feel frightened and traumatized in a crowd of neo-con protest? Each time I wear my "Not My President" T-shirt, I encounter a contentious response. I guess all those right-wingers are listening to Lee Greenwood and getting all fired up.

Your sarcastic quip about Chopin does nothing but annoy me. I'm well acquainted with Chopin, I listen to his concertos prior to every felonious impulse I have.

Ultimately, after you systematically attempted some kind of fallacious castration of all your previous posters, I was left wondering where your point was. Where was the relevance in your comment regarding public servants and the questions Moore initiates when interviewing the soldiers (front line Marines) who listened to heavy speed metal songs like "burn the mother----- to the ground" prior to entering their tanks and driving into war where thousands of civilians DIED. The comparison you make is highly fallacious and not in sync with the preceding discourse.

Oh, and I must add--for the record--that I make no assumptions EVER about someone's "ethnic heritage," nor would I ever respond to anything on that basis--if you knew my ethnic heritage you might better understand that.

It hardly bears comment, but no action of mine has ever been based on an ethnic/racial or any type of affiliative connotation. Sheesh. I can't imagine what in my original post would lead someone to believe that.

A UN Resolution Is Needed -
banning American music as a precipitator of aggression. The evidence is clear cut. My God! how many hapless British Soliders and Hessians were slaughtered under the guise of patriotism in colonial times when "Yankee Doodle Dandy" was in the ears of youth!? And the civil war - the henious hymn "Dixie" drove southern youth to the most dastardly of deeds. Sherman's march to Atlanta and his hundred mile swath of burning was accomplished to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of The Republic". And our doughboys in the war to end all wars, WW1 - how many innocent Germans were killed as America's finest charged out of the trenches singing " Over there, Over there......" ?? And WW2? The big band sound of the 40s drove our men beserk and resulted in millions of europeans being butchered - damn you Tommy Dorsey anyway!! Groups such as the Iron Butterfly, Big Brother and the Holding Company and the Doors drove american troops to commit unspeakable atrocities against the north vietnamese army and vietnamese civilians. It goes on and on - the inferences about music in moore's film have not gone unnoticed!

Ok. Let's take a deep breath shall we?
Everyone commenting on this topic has contributed good, constructive dialog in the past. That leads me to assume that all are thoughtful people willing to engage.

It is clear that Goesh took some of the comments personally, or that they had a personal impact on him. We all have "buttons" and apparently something is going on here that is not quite clear from Goesh's group reply.

I must say that my eyebrows went up on the comment about "booing a fancy girl" as well. Knowing Pamela, I took the statement with a grain of salt, but I can well understand how it might have been taken the way that Goesh took it. My first reaction was how I have been impacted by pressures to silence me.

My guidelines on reading comments on UTJ is to assume that all contributors are reasonable people of good heart. Everyone who has contributed to this discussion has reaffirmed that over and over. Therefore, when the kind of punch/counterpunch arises as has happened here, my assumption is that there is miscommunication - not deliberate attack.

It is so easy in this kind of environment where responses are freeflowing and instantaneous, and most of us have no knowledge beyond the posts by which to know each other, to misinterpret what someone has said. For almost all of us participating in UTJ, our relationship is based on what we say and share here. This problem is clear in Pamela's last comment "if you knew my ethnic heritage you might better understand that." We have to look at comments within the context of what has been said before.

I see us as a community. My only stipulation for participation in the dialog is that we deal with each other in a respectful manner. That does NOT mean that we don't challenge each other.

I value all of you who are participating here. I urge us to give each other the benefit of the doubt.