To the people of Oregon:

How dare you? How dare you tell me I’m less than you? How dare you have me face every person I know, meet or interact with each day and wonder if they are part of the 56% of you who believe you are better than I – that you deserve rights I do not have.

How dare you hide behind school children and make this issue about their “protection”. What about the children in school who question their own self-worth, their own sanity, because they don’t fit the mold?

Do you feel safer now? Help me understand how preventing others from marrying protects your marriage? Are your marriages so fragile they can be shaken by the events of people you don’t even know?

In a state where “live and let live” has always been the forefront of every argument, how can you justify this?

Oregon has joined the ranks of Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, and South Carolina (to name a few) in progressing the cause of discrimination. Don’t ever dare joke about those states being ‘backwards’ and ‘ignorant’ again. Don’t ever dare think of yourself on a higher ground than those states that put politics in pulpits and bedrooms – that plaster religious documents in their courthouses and courtrooms. Don’t dare look with distain and distaste at states that allow a confederate flag to fly above their capitals. You are no better. I am appalled by your hypocrisy.

Be ashamed of what you have done. Be ashamed of the level to which you have sunk.

Dinah Smith
Salem, OR

Dinah,
I think that most on this site would agree with you. Many of us here in Oregon are beyond distressed at the passage of 36 which amends our constitution to institutionalize discrimination.

Yeah, Dinah, you are preaching to the choir here. I would strongly encourage you to find some centrist blogs and post your message there.

I'm trying to understand how Measure 36 could have passed in this state ... I don't know a single person who supported it--although I did see the bumper stickers. Since Kerry won by a pretty respectable margin, I have to reconcile myself to the fact that there are Democrats (a good # of them), who voted FOR Measure 36 ...

Today it feels like I'm having a gruesome nightmare and I can't wait to wake up.

My thought as I went to run an errand a few minutes ago was this:

"Goodbye America; Hello fascism."

I have to say that I am scared. I fear for my friends (and all the others) who don't fit the mold, whichever mold is applicable. I fear for my children who must be the next generation to survive here. Pray that I have taught them right; that they will not support discrimination and self righteous attitudes. I fear for our soldiers- the men and women who are set to be brainwashed and corrupted by sadism and fascism. I fear for the women (and girls) who have to make tough choices and find closed doors. I fear for the immigrants who will endure their own terror and by the standards of this administration, are expendable. I am afraid of the next self righteous judgment that will enter our constitution.

I am also incredibly angered. I am ONE of the many absentee voters whose vote WILL NOT COUNT in this election.

My heart goes out to the judged, persecuted and condemned. The rest of my sentiment is spelled out very well by Rowan here on this page. I could not have said it better myself.

Dinah: I have an 8 year old grandson who got up this AM @ 5:30 AM to watch the news, his entire class did a mock election and all but 3 voted for Kerry/Edwards. He simply doesn't understand why everybody can't have the right to get married, and how do I explain that to him ?

How do I tell him it is the so-called Christains that are opposed to probably the most responsible members of our society are denied what others take for granted ?

He is coming over tonight and I am going to have him read your email so that he may better understand the hurt, pain and unjust actions of this ONE MAN ONE WOMAN insanity.

In conversing with my eleven year old in regards to the 'concession-election,' she expressed in more vulgar terms how she feels about the Bush administration. I was very surprised at how much she knew, and her response. Since we live close to Fort Lewis and McChord Air Force Base, I asked her about some of her classmates. Some of her classmates have fathers or uncles currently in Iraq. They are sore at missing their family members. One student lost a family member to the war. My daughter's attitude reflects that of her classmates, I am certain. She says she wishes she was old enough to vote. How many more of our really young children wish they could vote and have an opinion on the direction of this nation right now?
Here is the future America. Maybe it will be up to our children to make the necessary changes. It is sad to think that they must be the ones to clean up the messes of those who came before them.

Enough with the temper tantrums. Let's have some dialogue.

One of the most interesting things I've noticed is that the lefties, who used to fancy themselves champions of democracy, now seem to actually fear it.

You oppose the erection of democratic structures in Afghanistan and Iraq. You whine and cry about the result of democratic processes in Oregon when the result fails to enshrine your self-interested preferences as law.

You are very conditional democrats.

In any case, I think Rowan's analysis is probably correct for some people, but I think it really doesn't take into account the large numbers of individuals who, like me, are neither religious nor imperialists, but are simply fed up with the whining, temper tantrums, and demands of the left. Too many of your are too emotional and too whiny and too negative and too over the top.

Bushrod, you are welcome to leave this forum. Your accusations miss the mark totally and are beneath responding to. You are not going to bait a fight here.

I respectfully request that people refuse to be baited into this argument.

Thanks for the offer, but I like to expose myself to other perspectives. How about it? You seem baffled by those who oppose gay marriage. I'll be glad to field questions to help foster an exchange of ideas. I don't have a drop of religious blood, so we can dispatch with that right from the start.

I stand with Rowan

Dinah- I feel where you are coming from and I feel the hurt and can sense it in your words. However, with your entry, you've essentially posted a "condemning" of your own. The animosity and anger you harbor will not help progress your fight. Perhaps that's half the problem. People are looking at this Yes on 36 as a FIGHT. It needs to be your mission. You should not talk down to people simply because they don't vote the way you want them to. That is no way to communicate or try to get others to see where you stand. I do believe that Oregon, and others would be much more accepting of the idea of a "civil union". Throwing a fit doesn't do anything but TURN PEOPLE OFF. We need to understand why 57% of your fellow Oregonians voted this way. Do not lower yourself to their level with unintelligent outbursts. Let's find out why this happened and what we can do to fix the problem. I do believe that within the next few months civil unions will be allowed. I think the majority of this state is just weary of calling it marriage, not the idea of a union of two people.

To An Oregonian: I tend to agree with your approach, but I basically disagree. Why should people, anybody be denied the RIGHT to marry whom and where they want ? Are we going to let the Lon Mabons of the world win ? Remebver the fight on NO on 9...?

Since we have this so called moral dilemma that seems to have consumed this post, I feel I must contribute. I am a heterosexual, yes. But I am not blameless.
If we were to use Christian/religious principles, those of us with illegitimate children, multiple marriages or simply "shack up" with our partners, we are just as guilty of sin as any other. For us, judging morality based solely on gender selection might be considered a sin. "Judge ye not; lest ye be judged." The rest of that scriptural passage continues...
For those without religious beliefs, the same ideology could apply. Who's to say that pornography is not immoral? How many married heterosexuals participate in such things? Should their behavior be criminalized? How many married people fantasize about a different lover? Let's see someone try to criminalize that.
My point is that unless you married as a virgin to someone of the opposite gender and have never imagined having sex with anyone but your spouse, we are all guilty of what the religious and/or traditional communities consider immorality.
Maybe the attractions people have for one another makes people totally aware of their own infidelity. Homosexuals just make easy targets because they are considered "different" by a self righteous society.

To Dinah:
This is a safe place to vent. Most of us are with you in your sentiment and will not condemn you for any reason. We all need to let it out somewhere. Here is where you will find support.

Yes Dinah we welcome you with open arms and can understand your frustration. I would direct you to Steve Duins article in the Living section of todays Oregonian, "Reconcilation is a myth, not a strategy" The entire article is the best I have read so far and I have been all over the net and mews media, what follows is the last paragraph, I urge everyone to read it, this is not the time for apologists or bull shit compromises, "Can't we all just get along is obviously a strategy that isn't going to work"

Here is the paragraph or Mr. Duin's aticle in the Living Section of today's Oregonian" "Retreat isn't an option. Reconcillati9on isn't a strategy. The Republicans are not at rest. The Republicans don't want the gaping ewound in the liberals' flank to heal. If Bush is a lame duck, he is surrounded by chicken hawks who are enarmored of power and determined to lock up the francises. Rock on, Democrats or roll over. Choose to lose ....again and again."

Other worthwhile quotes: I understand why reconciliation is so tempting. Reconciliation is the Democratic way, the party's reflexive, knee jerk readtioon. "Can't we all just get along?" is the liberals' perpetual, passive password. They haven't figered out that reconciliation is the PROBLEM !

Finally the most telling of all and my biggest concern: "Does anyone truly believe, based on the president's record, that his interests are served by uniting this country. If the man was emboldened by LOSING the popular vote in 2000, imagine how empowered he will be by winnin it in 2004. His moderate term is history. His true colors will soon be unfurled"

Sums up how I feel.

Rowan Already sid we have the infastructure inplace. Let us all do what we can to create a better future and stop complaining about the past.
Where is the contact information for aour elected officials and what should we ask them to do? I have not yet read one comment on what we should do.
I want to take a positive action and expect a positive useful response. Baby steps if we have to, but let us ALL get this show on the road.

Well lets find issues/candidates we agree upon and form a coalition, hell I would be happy to elect a dog cather at this point. I have been writing letters and sending what little money I have. I do have time and some expertise in selling ideas and at this stage in my life would dearly love to move an agenda forward. The people who respond to this website are intelligent, educated, talented, most are very busy, but I am all for an idea.....just one we can move forward, I plege the first $25.00 to start it rolling...lets talk !

My main idea lately has been immigration ... I'm angry enough that I feel all the "thinkers" (i.e. idealists, progressives, academics, intellectuals) should bail out of this country and leave corporations and powermongers to figure it all out. Man if only a mass exodus could leave the CEOs scrambling to find a constituency to screw next ... without a lower/middle class to turn to.

War on Terror, "moral values"--what hypocricy, where's the morality in moral values? Dictating to others how to live their lives, forcing people to adhere to THEIR ideology? ... none of that has any resonance with me. And reconciliation isn't in my vocabulary at the moment.

But something that I would like to get involved with is obliterating the electoral college and standardizing voting.

Sent to me by a fellow writer: "Funny - the crucial state this year was Ohio, where voting was largely electronic, on machines largely supplied by a company whose president promised to deliver the state for Bush, and who gave Bush something like $200k - bundled as they do it now, and couldn't - after 25 years of putting an ATM on every streetcorner in the world - couldn't figure out how to make a voting machine that printed a receipt."